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Vilja Kainu, LLM, Med. Kand.'s avatar

I think there are a number of assertions here that are much too strongly worded. That said, when you see a lecture hall of trans patients at the same time, you can’t escape feeling like there are at least two modes of distribution within both ftm and mtf populations.

The two discrete types model is not The Truth, though. Blanchard and later Lawrence even report patients describing sexual fantasies around being a woman even though the patient is attracted to men. Too strong claims based on too little data from studies that aren’t rigorous enough isn’t the way to go.

My feeling is that, online, only 4chan’s lgbt board has brutal honesty, enabled by the anonymity. And mtfs with AGP would get real empathy by their kind and the kind of frank support without gaslighting that people in that situation need and deserve.

On Reddit fora and discord servers, you see loads of users persuaded of their femininity get hugboxed, the positivity being enforced by strict moderation. Telling someone they would not be seen by the world as a woman as they then presented themselves is a bannable offence in many online trans spaces. This warps their expectations horribly.

That said, some ftms have a very attractive masculine energy in person and it’s easier to feel they are men than not. So passing is absolutely a thing.

The big ick I had was seeing mtfs exhibit ‘coomer mentality’, a very male way of seeing women. How could I see someone as a woman when they were talking about female body parts, my body parts, in a way that stank of coom? We hate being seen by men as a mobile platform for T & A.

It feels like a violation. I got similar vibes when reading about cultures where men don’t have to restrain their sexual impulses.

And that’s why AGP can’t be allowed to exist. It gives too many a disgust reaction. It shatters any illusion of femininity the person might have created. The unbridled male gaze is demeaning, it feels predatory, it devalues women, why can’t men just learn to see the whole person? And when it’s someone talking about breasts in the coomer manner dressing like the male idea of a sex worker, it’s just too much.

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Pearl Harper's avatar

"If an autohet person wants to transition but doesn’t even know the name of the sexual orientation underlying their desire to be the other sex before they start taking hormones, how is that informed? How is that consensual?"

This is... not a very convincing argument as written. Knowing every bit of medical trivia there is to know about a condition or its causes isn't generally considered necessary for informed consent.

A patient with a bacterial infection can still give informed consent to antibiotics even if they don't know the name of the bacteria they're infected with.

A patient who's depressed can still give informed consent to antidepressants even if they don't understand the biological causes of their depression or the mechanism by which they work. (Last I checked, no one actually understands those!)

I'd say the core elements of informed consent are knowing what"s about to happen, knowing what the consequences might be, and choosing to go ahead with it. For HRT, that means knowing what hormones are, what effects to expect on what timeline, how permanent those effects are likely to be, and what the risks are. But I don't see why informed consent would require the patient to understand why they find those effects desirable.

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